Are viruses alive?

An oncovirus is a virus that can cause cancer

The current cervical cancer vaccines (Gardasil and Cervarix) actually act against subtypes of HPV (Human papilloma virus) that cause cervical cancer, not cancer itself. However, not all cervical cancers are caused by HPV - and also not all HPV will cause cervical cancer (HPV generally causes a disease called Genital Warts).

So by saying "cancer is not a virus", I mean just that. The two words are not equivalent, and are not even in the same class.

there may be links between some viruses and some cancers - but it does not follow that cancer is a type of virus, or that all viruses cause cancer.

Generally speaking, a cat is not a big animal. However there are big cats, some of which are big animals. This does not mean all cats are big animals, or that all big animals are cats - it doesn't even mean that all big cats are big animals.

Your explanation for " cancer is not a virus " is an interesting of scientific approach. For your statement :
1. They are worded quite suspiciously, and even then look not to say what you think they say.
2. News can be a good source of information, but often they can warp the behind the scenes science activities.
The solution is simple, please contact WHO and or contact Dr. Wilfried Kreisel, and you will know the Kompas is a bona fide source of information or not.

I believe the WHO EMF Project in 1996 is very important and that's a good idea. The results of this project can make lots of " mysterious diseases " clear up ( See Top 10 Mysterious Diseases in LiveScience ). Sadly WHO EMF project gets no fund from the US.

Thanks Michael, I believe you know much the Science of Virology. So, may I have your explanation please, about scientific approach of the Science of Virology for :
1. The Origin of Smallpox viruses.
2. The Origin of Influenza/Flu viruses.

It is not my job, responsibility or perogative to directly investigate every single claim you make by contacting international organisations such as WHO.

I do not doubt Kompas is a reputable news organisation. But I do have to keep in mind things like, it is not written by scientists, hasn't gone through peer review, is based on media releases and press conferences, and is also in a language I do not understand myself (thank you for providing your translations).

A major stickler here is the news report makes no mentions of any findings. It reports that EMF is being investigated based on suspicions. As I've said previoously, this WHO's responsibility to do this. It is not objective to assume that because the WHO is investigating them that it means EMF is resposnible for ill health effects - and it is an absolute total non-sequitor to cite it as evidence that Radiation causes the spontaneous generation of all viruses, instead of them being infectious diseases.

Again, about your statement :

1. A relationship between radiation and cancer, and a range of other ill health effects, is not the same as a link between radiation and spontaneous viral generation ( May 18 ).

2. One would also think that if the spontaneous creation of viruses by electromagnetic radiation would have been widely reported if it was uncovered in 2001 ( May 19 ).

3. A link between radiation and disease maybe established....but cancer is not virus, and alzheimers is not a cancer or a virus ( as far as we know as yet ) ... and also a link between radiation is far step away from the spontaneous generation of viral replicators from radiation exposure ( May 21 ).

4. .....as evidence that radiation causes the spontaneous generation of all viruses ( May 23 ).

By the words : " radiation and spontaneous viral generation ", " spontaneous creation of viruses ", " spontaneous generation of viral replicators ", " spontaneous generation of all viruses ", you make repeated attemps to say that I never say. I don't know what your aim.

Please check all my previous posting, I never say " radiation and spontaneous viral generation ", I never say " spontaneous creation of viruses ", I never say " spontaneous generation of viral replicators ", I never say " spontaneous generation of all viruses ". Also in all my articles about AIDS and Virus published in Indonesia's mass media in 1996 - 1998, I never use the word " spontan " or " spontaneous " ( spontaneous = spontan / Indonesian Language ).

In my article about Concept of Free Radiation treatment Room / FRR concept, 1996, I wrote : ......because of the global warming, in certain areas the radiation intensity increase and occurs the opening on chronic radiation of cosmic-rays and radionuclide. For example, the living areas of which soil structure or stone kinds composed of thorium, big cities which have lots of building, industry areas, etc. In these places, there are various diseases caused by radiation, grows fast. But, it doesn't mean that all people who stay in those areas are susceptible with the diseases caused by radiation. It is because each person has natural immunity factor on radiation, even from the body condition, dishes style, behaviour style, or daily life activities ............

Again Michael, I still believe you know much the Science of Virology. So, may I have your explanation please, the scientific approach for :

1. The Origin of Smallpox viruses.

2. The Origin of Influenza / Flu viruses.

Right at the start of thsi discussion, you said:

my idea all kinds of viruses are caused by radiation, and ......viruses not alive.

Again: all kinds of viruses are caused by radiation
My reading: Radiation causes all viruses to occur.
My only problem at this point was "all", radiation is certainly involved in some virus activation processes, but when we know that most viruses are created by other viruses (chalk up a point for "living creature attributes"), this sounds like hyperbole or bonkers.

Now I did question you to verify what you meant and you stated:

In my opinion, a number of viruses : Smallpox, Influenza, Human T-cell leukemia, Human Papillomavirus ( HPV ), HTLV 1, HTLV 2 and many other( all viruses ).......including HIV/AIDS Viruses .......are caused by radiation. I am quite sure for Smallpox, Influenza and AIDS Viruses : the main causal factor is Ultra Violet ( UV ). In my opinion : The origin of viruses is Radiation.

My reading: HIV, HPV, Smallpox and INfluenza are caused by not just any radiation, but basic sunlight.
So we ventured into bonkers territory.

You've restated your position that radiation actually creates viruses and perpetuates viral replication:

Virus is a toxic particle occurring due to a chemical process caused by a radiation on the living tissue, and its multiplication is influenced by the on-going radiation intensity,

And then brought in a kicker in response to an offhand comment I made: You can cure viral disease by ceasing exposure to all forms of radiation (I'm still unclear how, human bodies are radioactive to some degree)

I am quite sure if the effects of radiation are terminated, virus will automatically " die " by itself.

In 1998 I wrote : People with AIDS must be treated in Free Radiation treatment Room / FRR ( The Jakarta Post, March 21, 1998 ).

So please do elaborate what you are trying to suggest if it is not radiation causes all known viral disease by activating and sustaining viral replication.
We've also heard you indiscriminately equate viruses with cancer, and somehow leap from the fact that WHO investigated the possibility that radiation could be harmful to the conclusion that they absolutely 100% agree with your bonkerdom.

Please feel free to correct my summary in any way you feel appropriate.

In answer to your question:

Viruses come from other viruses. That is the origin of individual cases of viral disease. You do not get influenza from exposure to radiation - you get influenza through exposure to the influenza viruses.

The exact historic origins of the viruses, probably at least several thousand years ago is a little bit murky. It's a bit like asking where monkeys come from - modern day smallpox and influenza are the result of a lot of evolution.

Personally, I'd think that viruses have their origins in ERV (endogenous retrovirus) conditions. That is they are rogue replicating elements from other organisms genomes - the exact process may relate to some forms of radiation - but are just as likely to relate to free radicals, replicating errors, autoimmune disease, intracellular pathogens, other pathogens, carcinogens, mutagens, and anything else that can physically affect genomes.

Good for you Michael. My point, I disagree with your statement : spontaneous..... spontaneous....., spontaneous......, spontaneous creation of viruses by radiation. Obviously your statement is Do Not Make Sense.

1. Your reading : Radiation causes all viruses to occur.
- I agree with your reading.

..... but when we know that most virused created by other viruses ....
- I mean the first cause ( first cause = sebab pertama/ Indonesian Language ) is radiation, and viruses multiplication are influenced by the on-going radiation intencity. If the on-going radiation intencity are terminated, I believe " viruses created by other viruses " not occur.

2. Your reading : HIV, HPV, Smallpox and Influenza are caused by not just any radiation, but basic sunlight.
- I am quite sure for Smallpox viruses, Influenza viruses and AIDS viruses, the main causal factor or the first cause is Ultra Violet / basic sunlight.

3. Your statement : We've also heard you indiscriminately equate viruses with cancer ........
- I disagree with you. Obviously the WHO EMF project 1996 is not the evidence for the concept of virus of mine, 1996, but has the same direction of the view about the relationship between viruses and radiation.

4. Your statement : You do not get influenza from exposure to radiation.
- I disagree with you. The first cause influenza viruses is from exposure to radiation / Ultra
Violet.

Your statement : You get influenza through exposure to the influenza viruses.
- I agree with you.

Thanks Michael.

Gato you will need to be more clear on what you mean by "first cause".

Do you mean in an evolutionary sense, the origin of viruses as *organisms*?

Viruses may have an original cause based in radiation and other gene-altering effects - but if you are diagnosed with HIV, it is likely you contracted it through exposure to HIV virions, not radiation.

I'd agree somewhat with this statement (but still argue that claiming radiation as the direct origin of every species of virus, is possibly a bit too much)

Do you mean as a causitive force on individual cases?

To me, it seems as though you are claiming that if you are diagnosed with HIV, it is not due to exposure to the HIV virus, but due to exposure to radiation.

This is where we get you ignoring the basic principles of virology and infectious disease. We KNOW HIV virus particles are infectious, and this process of infection has absolutely no established link to sunlight or other forms of radiation - factors at play are infected fluid transfer (namely blood and sexual fluids).

To me this reads as spontaneous generation OR activation of viruses.

Even if I were to be lenient and consider that the only effects you are claiming radiation has on viruses are activating and/or excacerbating the disease, it's still not highly based on repported science. It's speculation at best.

Again: You get viruses from other viruses. Not from radiation.

About the term " First Cause " :

The first cause of Infuenza Viruses is from exposure to radiation. I mean, the Origin Influenza Viruses is from exposure to radiation / UV. After one people get influenza viruses from exposure to radiation, the influenza viruses spread in two ways :
1. Direct exposure : from exposure to radiation like one people in the " first cause ".
2. Indirect exposure : through exposure to the influenza viruses, infected from one people in the " first cause ".
That it is, I disagree with your statement : you do not get influenza from exposure to radiation, and I agree with your statement : you get influenza through exposure to the influenza viruses. In my opinion, the correct statement : you can get influenza from exposure to radiation, and you can also get influenza through exposure to the influenza viruses / infected from other people.

One of the basic idea in the Concept of Virus, 1996, all of viruses spread in two ways : Direct Exposure and Indirect Exposure.

Your statement : For me, it seems as through you are claiming that if you are diagnosed with HIV, it is not due to exposure the HIV virus, but due to exposure to radiation.
- I disagree with you. You can get HIV from exposure to radiation, and you can also get HIV through exposure to the HIV / infected from other people.

Your statement : We know HIV virus particles are infectious, and this process of infection has absolutely no established link to sunlight or other form of radiation - factor at play are infected fluid transfer ( namely blood an sexual fluid ).

- I disagree with you :
1. I'm sorry I say again : You can get HIV from exposure to radiation / overexposure UV radiation, and you can also get HIV through exposure to the HIV / infected from other people.
2. No scientific evidence HIV infected through sexual fluid. Who, when, and what institution conduct experiment that HIV infected through sexual fluid ?

That it is, in my previous posting ( October 12 ) I wrote : Although they were using condoms, still they make their bodies as an UV absorbent.

Note : I use the words " human body can play as an UV absorbent " in all my articles about AIDS in 1996 - 1998, and 10 years after that, in 2008 I found link The SunWise Program ( Pierce County, Washington Proclaims SunWise Day, May 7, 2007 ). Thanks to the SunWise Program for the correct term : " Increase Sensitivity To Sunlight ".

Thanks Michael.

Hi Gatot, Thank you for your explanation. I think we are having too strong language difficulties here.

Radiation can cause genetic changes which may act to activate previously dormant endogenous retroviruses. In that way your idea that viruses may act as a first cause in some cases of viral infections, may hold some water.
That said, a suddenly activated ERV is possibly going to be quite week and lowly evolved - this just doesn't match with what we know of sophisticated evolved entities like smallpox, flu and HIV (only the last of which has direct ERV origins).

Cases of influenza can be traced back to other cases of influenza, whether in other humans or animals. Influenza is not caused by exposure to sunlight.

Similarly, cases of HIV can be traced back to other cases of HIV. And I really wouldn't expect anyone to say that sexual fluids and blood of HIV-infected people are not infectious. I really don't thin I should need to explain how this is known (part animal models, part virus titre detection, part investigative epidemiology).
Condoms aren't 100% effective at preventing HIV infection, and that's when used perfectly (proper condom procedures is often not known in susceptible demographics, and also can be hard to follow in the heat of the moment)

In answer to your question:

Viruses come from other viruses. That is the origin of individual cases of viral disease. You do not get influenza from exposure to radiation - you get influenza through exposure to the influenza viruses.

The exact historic origins of the viruses, probably at least several thousand years ago is a little bit murky. It's a bit like asking where monkeys come from - modern day smallpox and influenza are the result of a lot of evolution.

Viruses come from other viruses. Yes, I agree with you.

It's a bit like asking where monkeys come from .......

No, I disagree with you. In my opinion, cells are alive, but viruses are not alive. Viruses come from other viruses are caused by on-going radiation intensity.

" Viruses are alive " maybe is the same with " Atoms are alive ". Misconception ?

WAR AGAINST AIDS VIRUSES :

THOSE WHO WIN THE BATTLE ARE THOSE WHO DO NOT MAKE ANY MISTAKES.

Prions are the Enron of the NIH and the TSE labs
Have you read Dr. Frank Bastian's,
(the foremost authority on CJD) research on CJD. He implicates and
certainly proves to the satisfaction
of anyone who will listen that the main culprit
behind all TSE infection, including Alzheimer's,
is the spiroplasma bacteria. Please carefully investigate his claims.
I think you also might investigate
how the majority of respected scientists arrived
at conclusions that ignore basic biology and the rules of evidence.
The prion will soon become known for the joke that it is
(Stan said PRIONsounded good, a great name). But what
about all those folks that might have been helped if science
had been chosen over self serving politics and incompetence.

I am currently a 1st year student of Biology in the National University of Ireland, Maynooth. During my studies we have talked alot about viruses. One thing which troubles me is the question, are viruses alive? In my opinion they are, i feel that many biologists will not accept that they are as the whole definition of LIFE would have to be changed, however the definition of life has changed many times over the past few centuries, why can't it again? I would really like to hear your opinion on this. http://www.dvds-online-rental-review.com

adamTS1107835 wrote:

All viruses have genes

Thus "viruses Are Alive"

Dov

On The Virosphere

Highly recommended

A. "Enter the Virosphere"

http://www.sciencenews.org/view/feature/id/47695/title/Enter_the_Virosphere
As evidence of the influence of viruses escalates, appreciation of these master manipulators grows

- "Now a more productive view of death by virus is emerging".

- "In death, victims of viruses release nutrients. Their killing feeds the world.”

Koonin argues that viruses may have predated cellular life.

B. Henis argues that independent, not-yet-genomed-nucleated-celled, genes, predated viruses and cellular life

and that life survival, replication, dates viruses either co- or post-cellular evolution.

Dov Henis
(Comments From The 22nd Century)
Updated Life's Manifest May 2009
http://www.the-scientist.com/community/posts/list/140/122.page#2321
Implications Of E=Total[m(1 + D)]
http://www.the-scientist.com/community/posts/list/180/122.page#3108

Unlike a bacterium or a cell of an animal, a virus lacks the ability to replicate on its own. A virus does contain some genetic information critical for making copies of itself, but it can't get the job done without the help of a cell's duplicating equipment, borrowing enzymes and other molecules to concoct more virus.

" It's not a living organism, " said immunologist Fabio Romerio of the Institute of Human Virology, founded and directed by Gallo. " It's simply a well organized molecular parasite. " ( By Corey Binns, Inside Look : How Viruses Invade Us, LiveScience, 05 June 2006 ).

Hi, I like this question for a number of reasons.

I have been folding protein for just around a year and a half now, and I have been folding a lot of stuff related to viruses.

I would call those Aminals. Amino Acids within a certain range that are able to mutate or have the ability to use a part of it'self or another protein, DNA of a host or nature to have further revelance to its own survival, communication, disguise, target, knowledge of other cells binders... etc etc... it somehows obtains a kind of conciousness or instinct to which it's living for what would be called in it's lifetime, propagated.

This entity (external or Internal) I believe doesnt need to be residing or resonating within a host/nature environment / cell to be part of life, as they know it. something is keeping these things exploring new avenues, to evolve, adding to their knowledge... if we don't also evolve and learn new ways to defend ourselves, they will find a way to replace us in the bigger game of life. as we know it.

they are very interesting indeed. I think they have a "life" of their own. for sure.

Misfolding proteins, cause cancers and other disease... but im not an expert. fold.it.

Aotearoa.

GatotICN000316476 wrote:To MichaelTS863182 :

As already been known, the radiation photons constitute a pack of discrete energy from light or electromagnetic wave. Its biological impacts can cause the gene mutation, and in my opinion .....resulting a certain toxic particle ( molecular parasite or toxic organic compound ? ), which is then identified as a type of virus.

For example, some villages in Brazil and in India are built accidentally on the land containing a great amount of Thorium element. Also, the water from several wells and mineral springs in Italy, Australia and in many other parts contain of million times regular radioactive. Researches have been performed in such places, and it is found out that the growing speed of cancer is tremendously high.

Beside Thorium, the esteemed gas of radioactive is discovered and named : Radon ( 222^Rn ). Radon and output of its disintegration transmit the alpha particles, and it has been analyzed that it becomes the prominent cause of lung cancer for the mine workers.

Basically, Radon is a very compacted gas and contained in ground, rocks or water. Once Radom releases from the ground, this gas tends to be trapped inside the house or building. Therefore, the more compacted the building is, the bigger chance to have the Radon gas trapped.

Ironically, crushing the rocks to be used as building materials means releasing Radon gas trapped inside the rocks. Not to be counted yet the release of Radon gas due to the expansion of the land and rocks caused by the global warming in earth.

In my opinion, a number of viruses : Smallpox, Influenza, Human T-cell leukemia, Human Papillomavirus ( HPV ), HTLV 1, HTLV 2 and many other( all viruses ).......including HIV/AIDS Viruses .......are caused by radiation. I am quite sure for Smallpox, Influenza and AIDS Viruses : the main causal factor is Ultra Violet ( UV ). In my opinion : The origin of viruses is Radiation.

The other factor for AIDS Viruses, I predict : Radon, and the Risk Group : which have the characteristic to absorb the UV, Although they were using condoms, still they make their bodies as an UV absorbent.

I'm sorry. If I'm wrong, nothing is lost.

GatotICN000313487

Yes, I have a tons of viruses on my laptop and pc.

Radiation from the sun is the main source of human exposure to UV radiation, which comprises UVA, UVB and UVC rays.

95 per cent of solar radiation that reaches the earth's surface is UVA, the other 5 per cent is UVB, while UVC is blocked by the atmosphere's stratospheric layer.

The authors wrote that:

"Epidemiological studies have established a causal association between exposure to solar radiation and all major types of skin cancer."

Also, until now, it was thought that the gene mutation that is caused by UV radiation from the sun was caused only by UVB rays, but experiments on mice have shown that UVA can also cause the mutation and skin tumours. Thus the IARC has moved UV radiation as a whole (UVA, UVB and UVC) to Group 1. These were all in Group 2 before.

Welders came under special attention in the report, but the authors were not able to conclude from the evidence available if the occurrence of melanoma of the eye in that group was as a result of UV radiation alone, or other agents or both. The authors said:

"A full review of the carcinogenic hazards of welding will be undertaken with high priority."

The IARC has also moved all types of ionising radiation into Group 1. This was the first time that all types of ionising radiation have been reviewed by one team of experts.

Ionising radiation includes:

* Radon gas, which damages the lungs. It can seep from soil, rocks and building materials. The Special Report says radon gas is the second leading cause of lung cancer after tobacco smoke.

( Sunbeds and UV Classed As Definitely Cancer-Causing, Medical News Today, 29 July 2009 )

Under such the facts, does it means that all the AIDS and Cancer sufferer should be prevented from the contact with the sunlight and the PUVA therapy, so that the AIDS and Cancer sufferer can be prevented from the deadly attack of AIDS and Cancer viruses ?

_________________________________________________________________________
One of the first duties of the physician is to educate the masses not take medicine ( Sir William Osler, 1849 - 1919 ).

It's certainly an interesting area of science. However for anyone who is ill with cancer I guess it doesn't really matter whether cancer is a virus or not. What matters is finding a cure.

Im not going to add to this one but would like to say i enjoyed reading it guys...