Are viruses alive?

Viral diseases are caused by viruses. These viruses come from a genetic source, which is usually virus-infected host cell.

Also at this point its also worth mentioning that virus ? cancer. Two separate things. Some viruses can cause cancer, or increase risks for cancer, but many cancers are virus-independent, and many viruses do not cause cancer.

From your post I am also getting teh impression that you think that viruses aren't transmissable? Or at least not as transmissable as we think?
And that radiation is the ultimate causing factor for most, if not all, viral disease outbreaks?

radiation photons constitute a pack of discrete energy from light or electromagnetic wave. Its biological impacts can cause the gene mutation, and in my opinion .....resulting a certain toxic particle ( molecular parasite or toxic organic compound ? ), which is then identified as a type of virus.

Viruses aren't just a simple particle of degraded matter though. They are an organism of some kind and not just a "compound". They are sophisticated packages of genetic information. At there basic form they have a capsid and stored nuclear material within that capsid.

It's very hard to imagine that viruses spontaneously form as a result of exposure to radiation, even particle radiation.

Radiation does cause mutations - these can result in cancers. Radiation, along with other mutagen/carcinogen/toxigen materials, might be a mechanism for the activation of a type of virus - the endogenous retrovirus (ERV). But typically viruses come from other viruses. Just like bacteria come from other bacteria.

Now, I think you are misusing the term "radiation photons". Photons are light, and are not distinct from light/electromegnetic radiation.
Alpha and Beta particles are possibly what you are talking about, but still, thanks to wave-particle duality, while being somehwat distinct from standard wavelength radiation, aren't wholly distinct and still have strong wave-like properties.

Now UV radiation, is just light (photon) wavelength radiation outside are normal visual spectrum. So I'm really lost at this point how it suddenly becomes the explanation as to the origin of viruses.

Now UV radiation, is just light (photon) wavelength radiation outside are normal visual spectrum. So I'm really lost at this point how it suddenly becomes the explanation as to the origin of viruses ( Michael TS863182 ).

Like I was saying, in my opinion ( Concept of Virus -1996 ) : Virus is a toxic particle occurring due to a chemical process caused by a radiation on the living tissue, and its multiplication is influenced by the on-going radiation intensity, whereas the various kinds of viruses are determined by radioactive nuclide which naturally exist on its surrounding.

In my opinion, virus is toxic in sense that :
a. It disturbs the cell functions.
b. It changes the cell composition.
c. It destroys the cell composition.

" It's not a living organism, " said immunologist ..... http://livescience.com/healt

Gatot S Astari

its multiplication is influenced by the on-going radiation intensity

So does your idea predict that virus titres should go down if radiation sources are removed?

I am quite sure if the effects of radiation are terminated, virus will automatically " die " by itself.

In 1998 I wrote : People with AIDS must be treated in Free Radiation treatment Room / FRR ( The Jakarta Post, March 21, 1998 ).

Sebtember 18 - October 7, 2006 : in the case of Accute Pneumonia, a 24-year old young lady died in modern hospital ( MK Hospital ), and her younger brother of 20-years old recovered with FRR at home ( 2 weeks ) - First FRR experiment, experiment by force -

Gatot S Astari

How do you propose to cease exposure to UV radiation (i.e. sunlight)?

How do you explain people who don't spontaneously develop some sort of viral infection in the sunshine?

How do explain the variation in viral development?

In your opinion are viruses a transmissable disease?

If you are not risk group. can you get AIDS ?

If UV can produce ozone in the air, can UV produce ozone in the human body ?

Why baboon marrow transplant failed ?

Gatot S Astari

If you are not risk group. can you get AIDS ?

Yes anyone can get AIDS. Not just black people, MSM, IV drug users, or other risk groups. Well it depends if you count being "human" as a risk group.

AIDS is a symptom of HIV infection. Not all AIDS is caused by HIV (though in popular context, AIDS is used to refer to AIDS caused by HIV), and also not all HIV infections result in AIDS. Much like many viruses infect humans without causing outward signs of pathology.

"Risk groups" are so-called because they have been identified as such. So obviously risk group members will make up the majority of HIV-infectees, and non-risk group members will be exceptions to this observation.

If UV can produce ozone in the air, can UV produce ozone in the human body ?

In my understanding most oxygen in your body is not in a raw O[sub]2[/sub] form. You are not full of atmospheric oxygen.

UV ozone production requires lengthy exposure to direct UV light. This is why it occurs mostly in the outer atmosphere. It is even difficult to create ozone in this manner with UV-light generators in a laboratory, and is only used for small scale production.

The INSIDE of your body is also protected by a nice layer of melanin protective shielding known as an epidermis. This is why sunlight-caused cancers are mostly skin cancers. Your skin is not known to be infused with atmospheric oxygen.

So, ozone production inside a human body through UV/Sunlight exposure, pretty unlikely.

Why baboon marrow transplant failed ?

It was baboon marrow transplant. I'm surprised he didn't die a painful and horrible death shortly afterwards.

Now, would you care to actually attempt some of my queries?
If you bring up a new and controversial topic, please expect it to be challenged and clarification sought.

My previous question is actually related to the question you asked. I mean, I would like to have the same perception, so that I can understand your question properly. And it is proven that certainly there is a difference in perception, particularly in regard to my question, " Why did baboon marrow transplant fail ? " You have not yet answered this question thoroughly. After completion of transplantation " he " certainly still lives for several years, but it does not mean that the transplantation itself is successful.

How do you propose to cease exposure to UV Radiation ?

UV is also required by human life. It is impossible to stop the UV. For healthy people, UV is not dangerous. However, for those who are suffering from a sickness assumed to be caused by radiation, it is better to avoid getting direct or indirect exposure to the sun light or other sources of radiation.

How do you explain people who don't spontaneously develop some sort of viral infection in the sunshine ?

For healthy people, UV is not dangerous.

How do you explain the variation in viral development ?

If the virus concept of mine has been proven true, it will enrich and add the understanding / discourse upon the virus. And possibly the similar case as in Modern Physics will occur, namely the precence of dualism in the Wave-Particles. The fact has proven that both of them run in parallel and mutually complete each other.

In your opinion are viruses a transmissable disease ?

It is obvious that the diseases caused by viruses are contagious diseases. Only, the ways of their spreading are different.

Gatot S Astari

Because of these serious health effects, you should limit your exposure to UV Radiation and protect yourself when outdoors ..............SunWise Program http://www. ...............

Global disease burden from solar ultraviolet radiation ..........http://www.who.int/.......

UV and Global Warming :
" For We sent against them a single Mighty Blast, and they became like the dry stubble used by one who pens cattle " ( The Holy Al-Qur'an 54 ; 31 ).
" Mischief has appeared on land and sea because of ( the meed ) that the hands of men have earned, that ( Allah ) may give them a taste of some of their deeds, in order that they may turn back " ( The Holy Al-Qur'an 30;41 ).

May God bless all of us and give His guidance and lead our way towards better dedication to mankind.

About concept of virus, AIDS and its connection with UV radiation........
References :
My articles published in mass media :
1. Why is AIDS difficult to be healed ? ( February 28, 1996 ).
2. What is the true HIV ? ( Mart 22, 1996 ).
3. About Theory of Virus. ( April 12, 1996 ).
4. Philosophy viewpoint ( Kuran ) about science and technology development.( May 24,1996 )

Gatot S Astari

Unlike bacteria, by the viruses require a host to grow and reproduce. and they are only 1 percent the size of a bacteria.

Viruses have genetic material, they operate, they mutate, and they replicate. So it seems viruses are in fact alive, because they are active.

GatotICN000313487,

Your post ignores so much scientific literature it isn't even funny. Could you please explain further how radiation generates viruses? I'm not even sure where to begin with a proper rebuttal: Viruses are distinct particles with their own genetic information, sometimes containing genes with no homology to their hosts or any other organism, that display the ability to propagate and evolve via natural selection.

Either I am not understanding your statement, or you are completely wrong. I fear that it is the latter.

By the way, Dov, after saying "Self-replicable in my book means that they, self, initiate and drive their own replication" I wonder how you define satellite viruses. These viruses do not supply their own polymerase, but if other viruses "provide their replicating organisms, their genes community, the genome", then surely you must count satellite viruses as alive, for they have gone a step further and provided not only their host but helper virus as well. If that is the case though, I think you might run into problems with individual genes fitting that definition.

-DJC

Thanks Devin. This is a true story, my first FRR experiment ( FRR : Free Radiation treatment Room ) is an experiment by force :

- 18 Sebtember - 7 October 2006 : In the case of Accute Pneumonia, a 24-year old young lady died in modern hospital ( MK Hospital, Surabaya ).

- 25 Sebtember - 5 October 2006 : Her younger brother of 20-years old recovered with FRR ( treatment at home ).

Gato:
Two people who got pneumonia is hardly a ground-breaking clinical trial.

Could it possibly be that creating a sterile IC-environment at home might be better than the overworked modern hospital.

It really doesn't matter how much anecdotal *evidence* you produce when your entire supposition ignores the basic science in virology. You'll need to provide proper evidence that viruses are caused by radiation, not just that people with viral diseases can be treated by FRR 'therapy'.

Wouldn't patients just spontaneously get viruses again after leaving the FRR?

How exactly does one create an FRR? (there is ever present background radiation, and almost evertything emits some form of wavelengths, even humans, not to mention radioactive elements present *inside* people's cells and tissues)

And if viruses are caused by radiation, and the patient already has a virus, how exactly does removing radiation actually cure the patient. Wouldn't you need to be in FRR to avoid initial infection?

Thanks Michael. But what do you meant with " ignores the basic science in virology " ? I think it clear that there will be very strong correlation between viruses and radiation. One of an example, in " the basic science in cancer viruses " - the term Carcinogen refers to the correlation with radionuclide or radiation.

Marie Curie, one of the pioneer of radioactivity, died of cancer caused by radiation exposure during her experiments.

Very strong correlation between viruses and radiation, for the reason , in June 1996 World Health Organization ( WHO ) announced that there is 5 years project to learn electrical and magnetical fields effect on health. The decision to launch the project was done by the experts from 23 countries in a close meeting which was held in the WHO Headquarter, 30 - 31 May, 1996. WHO experts explained that the research that has already existed now doesn't show clearly the society health threat from the using electronics equipment. These equipment have become parts of daily life, like mobile phones, open microwave, hair dryer, electronical shaver, electrical mover, until high tension electrical air drain.
" The health disturbance like cancer, attitude change, lost of memory, Parkinson and Alzheimer, AIDS, a sudden baby death syndrome and lots of other, are said that it is an effect from electromagnetic wave radiation, " the statement of WHO. " Electromagnetical field surround us, wherever we go, live, and sleep. This is a problem that we can't ignore, " statement the Executive Director of Health and Environment Division ( Kompas, 5 June 1996 ).

In fact, in 1996 WHO investigates The Effect of Electromagnetic Radiation. So, what do you think Michael, that it is " ignores the basic science in virology " ?

Gatot, I cannot track down these sources you continually quote. They are worded quite suspiciously, and even then look not to say what you think they say. I will need direct links to documents in order to fully reply to them. For instance, I would make a statement very similar to WHO Executive Director that you've quoted. But I still laugh at your suggestion.

A relationship between radiation and cancer, and a range of other ill health effects, is not the same as a link between radiation and spontaneous viral generation.

I would not deny that various forms of radiation have be linked to a number of negative health effects. But to say this somehow supports that all viruses are generated through the effects of radiation is a complete non sequitor, and as I've said above, ridiculous and ignores very basic virological theory.
This is adding 2 + 2 and getting BANANA.

Thanks Michael.

WHO Investigates The Effect of Electromagnetic Radiation. 5 years WHO project in 1996, the project 3,3 million dollar US ( Kompas, 5 June 1996 ).

Actually I want to know, what were the results of 5 years WHO project in 1996.

GatotICN000316476 wrote:Thanks Michael.

WHO Investigates The Effect of Electromagnetic Radiation. 5 years WHO project in 1996, the project 3,3 million dollar US ( Kompas, 5 June 1996 ).

Actually I want to know, what were the results of 5 years WHO project in 1996.

Exactly. I can find no trace of this study. I can't even find a journal called Kompas (I can find a travel agency).

Please provide a hypertext link.
One would also think that if the spontaneous creation of viruses by electromagnetic radiation would have been widely reported if it was uncovered in 2001

Thanks Michael. Kompas .... http://www.kompas.com/ , but I am afraid you can't find an archive.
This is newspaper clipping, Kompas, June 5, 1996 :

WHO Selidiki Pengaruh Radiasi Elektromagnetik.
( WHO Investigates The Effect of Electromagnetic Radiation )

Geneva, Rabu ( Geneva, Wednesday ).

Sampai sejauh ini penelitian terhadap radiasi gelombang elektromagnetik, termasuk yang dipancarkan telepon seluler dan saluran listrik tegangan tinggi hanya dikatakan bisa menimbulkan gangguan kesehatan. Namun hubungan sebab-akibat secara jelas, misalnya mengapa bisa menimbulkan kanker masih belum ditemukan.
Untuk itu, Organisasi Kesehatan Dunia ( WHO ) hari Selasa 4 Juni mengumumkan sebuah proyek lima tahun untuk mempelajari pengaruh medan listrik dan magnit terhadap kesehatan. Keputusan untuk meluncurkan proyek bernilai 3,3 juta dolar AS dilakukan para ahli dari 23 negara dalam pertemuan tertutup yang berlangsung di Markas Besar WHO, 30-31 Mei 1996.

( So far, the research about electromagnetic wave radiation, including those which are radiated mobile phone and high tension of electrics can make health disturbance. However, the cause-effect relationship hasn't been found yet, for example, why it can cause cancer.
For the reason, World Health Organization ( WHO ) on Tuesday, June 4 announced that there is 5 years project to learn electrical and magnetical field effect on health. The decision to launch the project 3,3 million dollar US was done by the experts from 23 countries in a close meeting which was held in the WHO Headquarter, May 30^th - 31^st, 1996 ).

Para pakar WHO mengungkapkan, bahwa penelitian yang sudah ada sekarang tidak secara jelas menunjukkan ancaman kesehatan masyarakat dari peralatan elektonik yang dipakai. Perangkat ini sudah menjadi bagian kehidupan sehari-hari, seperti telepon seluler, open microwave, pengering rambut, pencukur rambut elektronis, pemotong rumput listrik, sampai saluran udara listrik tegangan tinggi.
" Gangguan kesehatan seperti kanker, perubahan perilaku, hilang ingatan, penyakit Parkinson dan Alzheimer, AIDS, sindroma kematian bayi yang mendadak dan masih banyak yang lain, termasuk meningkatnya angka bunuh diri dikesankan merupakan akibat dari pancaran gelombang elektromagnetik, " demikian pernyataan WHO.

( WHO experts explained that the research that has already existed now doesn't show clearly the society health threat from the using electronics equipment. These equipment have became parts of daily life, like mobile phone, open microwave, hair dryer, electronical shaver, electrical mover, until high tension electrical air drain.
" The health disturbance like cancer, attitude change, lost of memory, Parkinson and Alzheimer, AIDS, a sudden baby death syndrome, and lots of others, including the increase of suicide numbers are said that it is an effect from electromagnetic wave radiation, " the statement of WHO ).

Medan elektromagnetik dihasilkan oleh barang-barang yang biasa ditemui dan tumbuh sangat cepat dalam lingkungan yang berpengaruh dalam kehidupan sehari-hari. Akibat yang ditimbulkan cukup menggelisahkan meski masih spekulatif. Namun WHO mengkritik penelitian sebelumnya sebagai " tidak terfokus " dan " tidak selalu independen ".
Proyek WHO ini akan menilai sejauh mana pengaruh terhadap kesehatan dan lingkungan oleh medan elektromagnetik, baik statis maupun yang berubah dengan waktu. Medan yang berubah-ubah mulai dari frekuensi nol ( listrik searah ) sampai 300 Giga Hz, mendekati batas teratas gelombang radio.

( Electromagnetical field comes from things that we usually meet and grows quickly in the environment which has effects in the daily life. The effect is still faded and speculative. However, WHO critisized the last research as " out of focus " and " not independent " research.
This WHO project will find out the effect of electromagnetical field on health and environment, whether it's statical electromagnetical field or fluctuated. The fluctuated field start from zero frequency ( Direct Current ) until 300 Giga Hz, approaching the highest limit of radio wave ).

Dr. Wilfried Kreisel, Direktur Eksekutif Divisi Kesehatan dan Lingkungan WHO menjelaskan, proyek ini tidak hanya sekadar analisis ilmu pengetahuan. Proyek ini juga bertujuan membantu pemerintah untuk menentukan kebijaksanaan kesehatan masyarakat mereka menghadapi perkembangan teknologi baru.
" Medan elektromagnetik ada di sekitar kita, kemanapun kita pergi, tinggal dan tidur. Ini merupakan sebuah persoalan yang tidak bisa kita hindarkan, " tambahnya.

( Dr. Wilfried Kreisel, Executive Director of Health and Environment Division, WHO, explained that this project is not only for the science analysis, but it help government to decide the society health policy in facing the new technology development.

" Electromagnetical field surround us, wherever we go, live and sleep. This is a problem that we can't ignore, " he added ).

( Rtr / awe )

More info, please read :

1. WHO EMF Project Gets No Funds from the US.

2. Stronger Evidence for an Alzheimer's- EMF Connection.

3. New Focus on Broadcast Radiation : Is there a Leukemia Risk ?

4. Focus Again on Electric Field : Now a Link to Brain Tumors.

5. EMF RAPID Innovative Biomedical Grants.

6. Evidence for Alzheimer's - EMF Connection Grows Stronger.

7. Lou Gehrig's Disease and EMF's.

8. Wireless Transmissions Blames for Mysterious Problem.

9. EC ( the European Commission ) Plan for Wireless Research.

10. Motorola, Microwaves and DNA Breaks : " War - Gaming " The Lai-Singh Experiment.

11. US Air Force Looks to the Battlefields of the Future : Electromagnetic Fields that Might " Boggle the Mind ".

See on http://www.microwavenews.com/news/backissues/j-f97issue.pdf

So it's a web(?) news source.

News can be a good source of information, but often they can warp the behind the scenes science activities.

Given that this study would have been completed almost 10 years ago, yet no significant publications announcing a connection between radiation and viral disease has emerged sort of suggests it didn't turn up anything conclusive.

And again you are still shifting your goal posts (or perhaps not quite understanding them).

A link between radiation and disease may be established --- but cancer is not a virus, and alzheimers is not a cancer or a virus (as far as we know as yet) --- and also a link between radiation and disease is a far step away from the spontaneous generation of viral replicators from radiation exposure.

Given the link between EMR and certain health effects, it is WHO's responsibility to investigate this, especially in response to public fears. However, that WHO investigates a possible health link is absolutely no vindication that a link exists. That's not really a handle on scientific objectivity.

Thanks Michael. What do you meant by " cancer is not a virus " ? What about the term Oncovirus ?