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The Scientist: NewsBlog:
When a supplier switches
Posted by Andrea Gawrylewski [Entry posted at 31st March 2008 01:39 PM GMT]
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Return to Top comment: never used BioRad PCR product but just found their iTaq SyBR Green better than Quanta and Applied Bio by anonymous poster [Comment posted 2008-06-18 11:01:23] Our lab used the SyBR Green Supermix from Applied Biosystems but I recently received new product samples from Quanta and BioRAD and I tested these three SyBR Green Supermix. The SyBR Quanta is the most sensitive but the least specific (easiest to make primer dimers); the Applied SyBR is the least sensitive and with an occasional non-specificity; the BioRAD's iTaq SyBR (not iQ, I suppose the iTaq is a newer product) gives the same sensibility than Quanta for more than 100 copies in the well, it failed to detect 10 copies per well (but I used a fragment I diluted one year ago and conserved at -20C so I dont exclude the degradation factor) but not a single primer dimer observed, the baseline is as low as Applied (Quanta gives very high base line), but it gives the Ct as early as Quanta (even sligtly earlier) for more than 100 copies per well. So if we have a perfect pair of primers, the Quanta's SyBR is a good choice, but if we have many genes to test and for some of them we have not a perfect pair of primers but functions perfectly with the BioRAD's SyBR, I can't choose the Quanta's SyBR Green. One more detail, the Quanta's enzyme is active during longer time than the BioRAD's enzyme (the Applied's one the least). If we consider the final quantity of amplied fragment, we can choose Quanta. I was ready to purchase the BioRAD's iTaq SyBR before I read this blog. I trust my result, I believe that the BioRAD's SyBR Green I tested is my best choice but if they dont inform changes in their products I'll be afraid. Return to Top comment: The formula did change by anonymous poster [Comment posted 2008-04-09 17:14:52] As someone who WAS a loyal Bio-Rad user, I can address the assumptions made by Libby.
Some Background: Our group used Bio-Rad's iScript and iQ SYBR reagents beginning in 2003. 1. Bio-Rad does NOT know the formulations. According to Quanta's literature, they did not share the formulations with Bio-Rad. When I heard about the change through my VWR rep I asked the Bio-Rad rep about this and he confirmed that the formulatios had changed. Prior to this we had noticed slightly different results in our SYBR kit performance that we could not explain. The new formulation worked but it was different. The iScript kit was fine (we eventually confirmed with the lot number that this was still Quanta's formulation). Our group no longer trusts Bio-Rad because they made no attempt to inform us of the change. They risked compromising our experiemental results. We now purchase Quanta's "Bio-Rad" formulations through VWR. 2. Bio-Rad changed the formulations AND the location of production. We got the "new" SYBR formulation last fall. So the change occured around then. 3. The formlations are different. Showing a QC spec with a few genes is not really convincing. We have evaluated a lot of kits and while most "work", the results are rarely "identical"...and they shouldn't be because they are all different formulations! On your last point, you are correct. Return to Top comment: What change in formulation? by Libby Yunger [Comment posted 2008-04-08 16:39:00] If the following three assumptions are correct:
1) Quanta was producing the PCR reagents under contract to Bio-Rad and with a formulation and to specs set by Bio-Rad. 2) When Bio-Rad changed the location of production of their branded reagent from Quanta to their own facility, they were using the same formulation and the same specs that Quanta had used - only the place of manufacture changed. 3) Bio-Rad has QC data showing that the product made at Quanta and the product made at Bio-Rad are identical in composition and performance. then it is probably not necessary to inform customers of the change in manufacturing location. Under these circumstances a change in the formulation would only have occurred if Quanta was adding something to the formulation that was not specified by (and therefore, unknown to) Bio-Rad. Contract labs lose contracts all the time - Quanta should get over it. On the other hand, if Bio-Rad did change the formulation as well as the manufacturing facility, they really must inform those customers who have validated the Bio-Rad product for laboratory or manufacturing use so that the product can be revalidated. Return to Top comment: Bio-Rad's Strategy was not to tell... by anonymous poster [Comment posted 2008-04-07 10:58:11] customers about the switch unless customers asked outright. They did little validation and created the new formulations in a matter of a few months. Customers were slow to notice the change because Bio-Rad bought a six+ month supply of reagents to ease through the change. Bio-Rad rep claimed they had to end the relationship with Quanta when they finally licensed their PCR machines from ABI. Quanta has a excellent reputation for quality reagents, so the change was not made due to supplier issues. Return to Top comment: Best of luck with your query! by anonymous poster [Comment posted 2008-03-31 22:01:05] For most researchers not connected with either Qiagen or BioRad, this question is outside the scope of their research programs, and addressing it openly would definitely not amuse their program sponsors. For others, the spectre of either Qiagen's or BioRad's lawyers digging into their results (and every other possible aspect of their work histories and laboratory environment) might loom as a nightmare-in-waiting.
The lab I worked in took on Sigma-Aldrich some years ago over a product problem, and we paid some serious freight unrelated to the facts of the case. I'd do it again today, but then, I'm still a romantic idealist after all these years. Good luck! Return to Top comment: if you are running a test by Li Chen [Comment posted 2008-03-31 20:20:35] Clearly, this might have a huge impact on PCR based diagnosis and/or risk assesment. At least, new calibration is required for sensitivity and specificity of the running test. Comment on this blog |